The Invocation of Mars

[seekinghga]

Here is a question for the forums: What makes you angry and how do you deal with it?  As well, do you think anger has any real benefit or is it merely a way of supplanting courage?

[SWM]

my opinion.

anger arises due to violations of psychological attachments. anger serves its purpose in the context that it arises.
my explanation of violations of psychological attachments:
i have my sphere, this is my reality, it contains me, the self. the self is everything that the self attachs to itself psychologically. my beliefs, my values, my rules, principles, etc. oh and my body, which is attached to me too. (by a very fine silver chord)
 
my sphere, this reality also contains "not me", the world and other people, not self. some of the not self is attached and some is disattached (or detached even, who knows), my parter is attached, my family, (not all of them) my home, the earth itself.

some of the not self is disattached. people and things i dont like or care for, and those evil entities that violate my sphere of psychological attachement.

the self lays claim to all these elements in its sphere: "This is my House(welcome)" "my car, (touch it not)" "My City (be careful) " "my beliefs, (fear the lord your god)" etc

a violation occurs when one of my attached components is damaged or threatend.  somebody throws litter in my garden, outrage. talks to my girlfriend in any kind of way other than "just being nice", my values or beliefs being frowned upon or even, god forbid, disputed.
 
of course, i dont get angry myself, being the enlightend being that i am, without psychological attachments and no egotic ideas.

a way of supplanting courage

are we talking anger or agression and are we differentiating between the two? if just anger please elaborate.

[seekinghga]

are we talking anger or agression and are we differentiating between the two? if just anger please elaborate.

Good thoughts SWM.  I never really thought of comparing anger and aggression.  I always assumed that the first was a cause and the second an effect of a singular phenomenon.  What causes anger?  Perceived attachment of some form or other, as you say.  That idea does not contradict my thoughts anyways.

[anaklio]

There are several basic emotions: anger, fear, love, sadness, disgust, joy, and surprise. These can be identified in the brain, and combined to created the full range of emotions that most of us have at our disposal. (See Panksepp, 1998 for a wonderful review.)

That anger is hard-wired into our brain certainly suggests that it is important. However, we can live without our appendix. So perhaps anger is also an evolutionary leftover? Could we function without anger?

I had two friends. Both were very passive, often letting themselves be overly influenced. One had no limits. The other had clear limits. That is, they would let themselves be pushed only to a certain point, then they would get very angry. I respected the latter friend far more. So anger did play a useful role in their life.

[SWM]

I had two friends. Both were very passive, often letting themselves be overly influenced. One had no limits. The other had clear limits. That is, they would let themselves be pushed only to a certain point, then they would get very angry. I respected the latter friend far more. So anger did play a useful role in their life.

there is also an issue of assertiveness in these friends.

scenario: if both friends were more assertive, yet one got angry when he was assertive but the other was just assertive, which of those friends would you have more respect for?

[anaklio]

Agreed. It would be admirable if one could be assertive without getting angry. But that's not always possible. It is better to get one's views out than not speak at all. I've seen people do this through "healthy fighting". That's not the best way, but at least there is communication.

[liza123]

Here is a question for the forums: What makes you angry and how do you deal with it?  As well, do you think anger has any real benefit or is it merely a way of supplanting courage?

If someone pushes me to the limit, then, I do get angry(which is rare ). Depending on the situation, my stance is either to be silent and walk away or to be very 'sarcastic'(with the hope that the person realises certain points).

Self conquest is the greatest of victories... Plato (BC 427-BC 347) Greek philosopher.

Well, there are times that I have pretended to be "angry"...it is called psychology!

I would not say that it is a way of supplanting courage(at least not with regards to my definition!)...sometimes, people get angry when they are caught in their lies...more like cowardice...

[liza123]

"the invocation of mars"....invoking the planet mars(gives qualities such as aggression, fierceness,fighting,etc.). The heat of Mars can cause anger, etc...invoke Mars ...is that why you chose this title?

[anaklio]

There is a Ancient Roman chant called the Carmen Arvale which is commonly referred to as the Invocation of Mars. While passages of this text are unclear, the traditional interpretation makes the chant a prayer to seek aid of Mars and the Lares. The prayer begs Mars to prevent disasters and asks him to be satiated. It also calls for him to dance and summon the sacred sowers.

[seekinghga]

"the invocation of mars"....invoking the planet mars(gives qualities such as aggression, fierceness,fighting,etc.). The heat of Mars can cause anger, etc...invoke Mars ...is that why you chose this title?

If that is not the real reason then at least you are very close.

[anaklio]

Astronomy has a great effect on humans. But mostly it's via the sun. There are some behavioral effects of the moon, but no known biological effects. Mars would likely have even less of an effect than the moon. Yet again, it can have large psychological effects.

Do the writers in this thread believe in Astrology? Or is this just a metaphor?

[liza123]

If that is not the real reason then at least you are very close.

What is the real reason? Or is anaklio 's post about Mars and Lares the reason for your choice of words?

[liza123]

Astronomy has a great effect on humans. But mostly it's via the sun. There are some behavioral effects of the moon, but no known biological effects. Mars would likely have even less of an effect than the moon. Yet again, it can have large psychological effects.

Do the writers in this thread believe in Astrology? Or is this just a metaphor?

For biological effects of Moon on human beings, please refer to this link, http://www.innerself.com/Astrology/full_moon.htm. The article also mentions Mars and astrology.
Moon is the closest planet to Earth;its gravitational force has a strong influence on Earth.

With regards to astrology and comments on that, I am starting a new thread in "Society and Culture". Thanks

[seekinghga]

Do the writers in this thread believe in Astrology? Or is this just a metaphor?

I'll take the agnostic stance on Astrology.  I am aware of some using it efficaciously, though even they remain skeptical.

Metaphor?  Sort of, if taken in a boring, generic context.  More like calling those Martian aspects (which liza123 so aptly pointed out) into one's being, using a tried and true recipe of utmost devotion, and then wondering the next day about certain of the results.  It's a fancy title anyways.  But see, all this title-talk has caused deviation from the original post.  Oh well, c'est la vie.  And as Titus said in his Ab Urbe condita, "non semper temeritas est felix."

[seekinghga]

What is the real reason? Or is anaklio 's post about Mars and Lares the reason for your choice of words?

No, it's not about Mars and Lares, not intentionally anyways.  Simply, if one is too full of Jupiter they should invoke Mars.  But that is beyond the simple scope of this thread.  : P

[anaklio]

People who believe in astrology think that the stars affect their lives. The Greeks believed that the gods affected their lives.

@seekinghga: Which of these two choices most resembles your choice?

[seekinghga]

People who believe in astrology think that the stars affect their lives. The Greeks believed that the gods affected their lives.

@seekinghga: Which of these two choices most resembles your choice?

I would not deny that the stars have an influence as I have experienced nothing contrary to that.  (A trick I learned on these forums!)  The Greek gods are an amalgamation of archetype and personification of nature.  However such an aggregate may affect a person's life is for them to discern, not me.

It's a fancy title anyways.

That is my most telling description of the title up to this point.

[anaklio]

>The Greek gods are an amalgamation of archetype and personification of nature.

One of the problems of historical analysis, is that it's impossible to genuinely know what people THOUGHT. Sure, you can read their journals, but my journal says I'm way cool and that's obviously a joke so ... ;-)

My point is...I've often wondered did the Greeks genuinely believe in their gods or did they consider them metaphors like we do. Also I wonder if Christians genuinely believe in their God or deep down consider it's a metaphor as well.

As has been noted in this thread, it's pretty arrogant of us to think we can "visualize" God. Thus that implies we're all using these things as metaphors.

[liza123]

No, it's not about Mars and Lares, not intentionally anyways.  Simply, if one is too full of Jupiter they should invoke Mars.  But that is beyond the simple scope of this thread.  : P

OK. I get your point. And sorry to deviate from the topic of this thread....you came up with the fancy title which made me wonder..

[liza123]

>The Greek gods are an amalgamation of archetype and personification of nature.

One of the problems of historical analysis, is that it's impossible to genuinely know what people THOUGHT. Sure, you can read their journals, but my journal says I'm way cool and that's obviously a joke so ... ;-)

My point is...I've often wondered did the Greeks genuinely believe in their gods or did they consider them metaphors like we do. Also I wonder if Christians genuinely believe in their God or deep down consider it's a metaphor as well.

As has been noted in this thread, it's pretty arrogant of us to think we can "visualize" God. Thus that implies we're all using these things as metaphors.

Nature is a volume of which GOD is the author...proverb. Hence, if the Greeks visualised and came out with GODs representing forms of nature or connected to nature, it is their belief.  Many people all over the world have equivalent beliefs even NOW. The evidence of the Greek statues etc were not based on personal journals surely? Why would God be considered a metaphor? For some, yes. But not for others.

[liza123]

anaklio, Why would you say that it is pretty arrogant of us to "visualise" God? Does that mean everything is a metaphor for a blind man? It is a matter of perspective, experience etc. Who are we to say that God cannot be visualized or felt or whatsover?Just because you or I do not does not make it a metaphor...

Some of the concepts,etc from ancient Greeks have been taken into many texts,etc by our so-called learned people. It is very subjective, isn 't it?To simply call it a metaphor.Who knows..in time to come what you call as metaphor might be reality....it has happened in history!

[seekinghga]

Instead of creating a new thread I will just post my question in this one.

Is there any way to make someone else to become less volatile and help them attenuate their anger.  I only ask because I know a friend who gets angry a lot and yet voices to me his wish that he didn't behave so.  He just doesn't know what to do, and therapy is out of the question.  Any thoughts?

[liza123]

Brilliant, seekinghga. First, you invoke Mars;then, you exorcise Mars...

What about asking him to count to ten each time he gets angry? Maybe, 20 0r 30(depending on how long it takes for him to cool down; you know him personally, so, you can suggest the number!). This method is said to "work".

PS-He is not the only person who regrets what he says after cooling down. It is normal for people to do so.

[anaklio]

One problem I've found with the yelling and then regretting and then apologizing approach is that some things can't be unsaid. Once you say "I hate you" to someone you love, things often change.

[liza123]

One problem I've found with the yelling and then regretting and then apologizing approach is that some things can't be unsaid. Once you say "I hate you" to someone you love, things often change.

oh,yes,anaklio. Saying " I hate you" to someone you love especially to your husband or life partner can be disastrous

[voodoo scientist]

Snorting speed makes me angry. That's about it, and I only snort speed when I want to experience anger.