Precognition

[Simplyme]

Is this the same or different from what is labeled as Psychic abilities?

[SWM]

precognition is when you have knowldege of something that later happens a bit like premonition. premonitions are when you have a visionary experience of something before it happens. there is a slight difference.

if somebody had these or developed these they would both be considered as psychic abilities.

[Simplyme]

I can not imagine what life would be like for those that had this ability. It is easy to see the positive possibilities but then again what about the things you saw that you could not change. I am not sure I would be able to handle such a responsibility as would come with this.

[STaR]

As is the case with many psychic abilities, not being able to control them would be a massive problem.

Imagine being telepathic, or hearing the thoughts of other people in your own head as though they were your thoughts, you would know everything that people think about you, whether they like you or hate you.
i magine being with a friend that you trust and respect and you hear them think "he is such a tosser, i dont know why i bother talking to him"

Take this in another direction also, imagine that your mind became so sensitive that you could hear the thoughts of everyone for miles around, sititng in your own house alone yet it might sound like being in crowd of poeple all shouting random things which have no relations to anything in your life.

It gets worse, you know what it is that is happening to you as you have seen it progress from slight telepathic ability to sensory overload, you go to your doctor to explain, the doctor send you to a psychiatric hospital on a section. You are forced to take medication and you are diagnosed with schizophrenia.

I think i might have derailed this thread. over active imagination

[DianaR]

I can not imagine what life would be like for those that had this ability. It is easy to see the positive possibilities but then again what about the things you saw that you could not change. I am not sure I would be able to handle such a responsibility as would come with this.

It doesn't really work this way.  It isn't a stream of information that is constantly running in the foreground of our thoughts.  It is an undercurrent that asserts itself  as a strong feeling, and I believe that most people have this ability, but it is snuffed out by religion and other constraints, quite early in life.

There is no responsibility really associated with it, unless one chooses to create it.

[SWM]

i think i could see how problems might occur with what simplyme is describing. if i were to have precognition or a premonition of a road accident involving my neighbour, and if my precognition/premonitions had always been true previously, then i might feel a responsibility to act to prevent this accident from happening. alternatively i might decide i have to live with the fact that what i have premonition about is going to happen and that i should not interfere with a predordained event.

[liza123]

i think i could see how problems might occur with what simplyme is describing. if i were to have precognition or a premonition of a road accident involving my neighbour, and if my precognition/premonitions had always been true previously, then i might feel a responsibility to act to prevent this accident from happening. alternatively i might decide i have to live with the fact that what i have premonition about is going to happen and that i should not interfere with a predordained event.

i agree with you, SWM. i had a premonition of my own accident and i tried so hard to avoid it and prayed to do so....finally, i did have one..but, a really minor one...maybe, my positive thinking and self-preparation helped...i drove more slowly and was ever cautious, etc

[anaklio]

There are some wonderful Japanese movies which deal with this theme, especially one called Yogen which I've linked to below. Often the characters try to change the outcome given their premonitions. And this usually leads to disaster.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0419280/

[Bill Hemphill]

Liza, from my own experiences, I know that the level of the event is not necessarily known. Just the event.

For example, a big wreck. Big compared to what? 

An earthquake? More than one? What earthquake will be a moving of Earths plates and what one is a social crash of personalities? A collision of peoples?

Like dream interpretation.

[Nivleonus]

Precog is not neccesarily very useful.... both me and my father have had the 'ability', his being much more defined than mine unfortuneately...

My dad used to dream about plane crashes that happened... it could have been coincidence until he dreamt about a plane crash where the plane never left the runway... just exploded... actually happened at Manchester Airport.

I dream about much more mundane things... having conversations with people... remembering exactly what they are about to say before they say it, being in the exact place that it happens in the dream... I can sometimes remember little things like what the clock says on the car radio in the dream... and of course I have to check...

Interestingly enough if I tried to change what happens in the conversation I end up getting a headache... so I mostly have to stick to the script, which ironically tends to be me saying 'we have had this conversation before' something like that...

Obviously the reason I say it isn't useful is because like all memories it has to have a recall attached to it... my Dad's recall was obviously hearing about the crashes, mine happens to be that I realise about a 30 seconds before in the conversation exactly what the person I am talking to is going to say...

This has actually led me to start studying dreams on the whole... as they seem to be greatly linked to my precognitive abilities (even though this is obviously pointless as I have to have my recall point/phrase) before I remember

[Bill Hemphill]

Nivleonus, I had precognition that a devastating earthquake would hit in the Americas. I suspected the Florida keys might disappear or Yellowstone would plunge into the Earth. I can only wonder if Haiti was what I had a precognition for. My "precognitions" are not always so accurate as to location and time. But, you might note my last post in this thread as being a little "telling" maybe. Bill

[Nivleonus]

I suppose it is possible that Precog happens in different levels and has different recall periods, I assume that when you say you dreamt about an earthquake in America that you remembered the dream straight after you had it.

This could then suggest that recall, and accuracy are linked. As if you remembered your dream straight after you had it there was a lot of inaccuracy but with mine that I don't remember till the time they are supposed to occur they are then more accurate... This piece of information is quite interesting...

Another point that should be made is that according to Jungian psychology dreams are related to God. In the Bible many different people have 'profecies' about things that are going to happen, also bearing this in mind it also says that many of these profecies happen while the individual is asleep.

[Bill Hemphill]

For me to remember a prophecy  gives good reason for it to be inaccurate  regardless of it being a dream or not. I am just saying that they are not all dreams although we think of them as being dreams. Day visions?They would then be from the Spirit of the Living God also known as the Subconscious, Delivered to the Lamb also known as the Self or Id.

[Nivleonus]

I assume you're not a believer then?

Shall we then assume that Precog is just a mere coincidence in the paranorm of space and time... Afterall if we consider the fact that time and space are both relative, is it not possible that every so often something that occurs in a dream may infact happen at somepoint in the relative time and space of this concious world?

I however still much prefer the idea that precognition comes from God. It makes more sense to me in the long run...

[Bill Hemphill]

Nivleonus, I was explaining to you that I believe it comes from God.

[Nivleonus]

Ah sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying Bill... many apologies :S

Still if it were a profecy why would you get it inaccurate... you didn't really explain that.

[Bill Hemphill]

I referred to it as prophecy, because I believe it comes from God. Regardless of what we call it. Like "precognition". I don't think God always tells us the specifics. What island south of Florida?. I did not know when. Some prediction. I also think God does not care for the details to be known by us. Just the event. More than coincidence, less than chance.

[voodoo scientist]

I am preconscious. I just received a vision, right from the big G himself, that this thread will be inconclusive. Sorry.

[S. Earl Martin]

Actually all kiding aside I agree with VooDoo. I have had visions of future events and I have the ability to sense certain things. Many times when money or something of value is around I get a tingleing on the back of my neck that only happens at that time. Money will be laying on the ground a distance away and I walk toward it as the sensation becomes stronger. I have found anywhere from a dollar to thousands of dollars that I had no way of knowing was there. I have also found jewelery and other valuble things. The problem with precognition or other psycic abilities is how can we tell when it is something "real" or just our imagination. Ocasionally I have gotten this sensation and looked and looked and found nothing. Maybe I just didn't find it and something was actually there. I am sure this is not coincidance and that it really works sometimes. The problem with trying to measure something that is unmeasurable makes it inconclusive. However it is interseting.

[pinkmint]

So, if we can't rearrange a negative event, then what's the point in seeing them?

[S. Earl Martin]

I believe we can effect our future by observing and modifiying our present. All the choices we make effect how our life turns out.
Now as far as seeing a future event and being able to change the furture with for knowledge that is something that would be difficult to know for sure.
1 Was what you saw a real vision of the future? Or was it just a possible outcome?
2 Was what you saw just your imagination?
3 How can you know if your action or lack of action really effected the future?
4 Because we are trapped in time moment by moment on a concious level. How do we measure precognition?

When I was meditating before and trying to break time I did suceed on several occasions. Other times I have had visions that came as flashes and as time progressed they became more detailed. Just before the event happened the whole thing would play out as a movie in my head. Then the real event would happen just as I had seen it. On a few occasions I was able to alter the event in a minor way, but I always wondered if I should have done it. Did I interupt some cosmic time line? When ever I have experienced something like this it reminds me of just how little power and control we have. Also sometimes something we might think is a negitive event might actually be a positive or learning experience. If we stop it we would miss the lesson. Peace!

[Nivleonus]

Well basically whenever I try to change one of my 'scenarios' I just end up with a headache. If I do attempt a change of what I think is going to happen then the precognition would no longer be valid an thus my brain can't accept it so I have to medicate myself afterwards...

The problem is that if you change the future through the use of precognition like any 'timetravel device' you are infact creating a sort of paradox. On a less than perfect level. Also it could be that in the process of attempting to avoid a situation u inadvertingly cause it by the fact that you are trying to do everything to avoid it.

[S. Earl Martin]

Yes it comes back to the infinite timelines and if there are multiple dimensions and everything that can happen does happen somewhere? Then we may be just seeing a different possibility and not the one possibility. That is why I agree with VooDoo. We can never really know because we lack a base point from which to measure from. A standard of measurement is required in any situation to have a true idea of what is happening. Because we are trapped in time it is like we are in a fish bowl. We can look outside the bowl and in our mind imagine what outside is like, but we can only experience our world at hand moment by moment.   

[pinkmint]

That all kinda makes sense...also, I like the idea that that seeing negative events is a learning experience.... especially if it's about you, someone you know well, or are about to...but what about seeing random things, like plane crashes as you spoke of, and earthquakes and other stuff, unless it's not directly affecting you or your loved ones, what's that all about? I used to dream things sometimes that come true...with absolutley no relevence to me/loved ones whatsoever, plane crashes, train crashes and stuff....I didn't know anyone on them. So  I don't know why. One thing I do know, is that, when I began meditating the Qabala and the tree of life,( though I stopped now) that's when these things started happening...and they've stopped now I've stopped. I kinda got a bit freaked out by them....and got confused, Then I started with the  Rosicrucians which was ok, Funny things happened then, but only with people I know...

I do like telepathy though, the real stuff. I had a psychic lady once read my mind full on. That was pretty amazing. She asked me to ask her a question, and I sent it her without uttering a single word.... to test her powers, and she answered it completley accuratley.  So yeh I like all this kinda stuff.

I went somewhere once, and I accidently bumped into someone I knew, and they left something  in the cupboard for me, because they knew I were coming (but they couldn't have known, because I never told anyone, lol) and then I looked in the cupboard and it's something I came for! They even knew what I was coming for, and I never told anyone. That was cool too, lol.

[hortonpilot]

liza
" i had a premonition of my own accident ......."

These are difficult , best you do not ignore what you feel.
The more you listen to these feelings the more you hear.

I had a premonition of an accident  some years back , i was driving back from work in snow country and there was a storm , instinct was to park with minimal blankets , so it was a terrible night ahead .
Drove back although it was only 50klms , i had the accident  anyway and the car was totaled , but i was OK.

Lucky if you get these warnings.

Horton

[TheAgeofReason]

i think i could see how problems might occur with what simplyme is describing. if i were to have precognition or a premonition of a road accident involving my neighbour, and if my precognition/premonitions had always been true previously, then i might feel a responsibility to act to prevent this accident from happening. alternatively i might decide i have to live with the fact that what i have premonition about is going to happen and that i should not interfere with a predordained event.

i agree with you, SWM. i had a premonition of my own accident and i tried so hard to avoid it and prayed to do so....finally, i did have one..but, a really minor one...maybe, my positive thinking and self-preparation helped...i drove more slowly and was ever cautious, etc

I agree with all of the above. I have a hard time accepting these ideas however, because in a way I feel that by doing so one would also have to accept that certain things (or maybe everything?) is predetermined. Where does that leave free will and our ability to determine who we are and what we become? Some may say that the environment creates circumstances and influences but that there are multiple routes via which those can unfold.

[SWM]

i think i could see how problems might occur with what simplyme is describing. if i were to have precognition or a premonition of a road accident involving my neighbour, and if my precognition/premonitions had always been true previously, then i might feel a responsibility to act to prevent this accident from happening. alternatively i might decide i have to live with the fact that what i have premonition about is going to happen and that i should not interfere with a predordained event.

i agree with you, SWM. i had a premonition of my own accident and i tried so hard to avoid it and prayed to do so....finally, i did have one..but, a really minor one...maybe, my positive thinking and self-preparation helped...i drove more slowly and was ever cautious, etc

I agree with all of the above. I have a hard time accepting these ideas however, because in a way I feel that by doing so one would also have to accept that certain things (or maybe everything?) is predetermined. Where does that leave free will and our ability to determine who we are and what we become? Some may say that the environment creates circumstances and influences but that there are multiple routes via which those can unfold.

Hi
i can only talk from personal experience and from assumptions about that experience none of which is based on any rigorous scientific investigation. however when it comes to precognition it does not have to mean that because we have foreseen somethings that all things are preordained. i can think of many times where i have had fore knowledge of an event but i can also think of a lot of times that i have had dreams of myself in situations that have not happened. i think this fits with your idea that
there are many paths that that lead into our future and that we choose and direct our own destiny and that we can actually recieve in precogniton is forecasts of what maybe instead of what actually is.

[Xen]

I believe ive had something close to precog before, however, im not sure i even believe it myself.
it always occurs in dreams, ill have a vivid dream of an event. and ill remember it when i wake up, but then usually the event doesnt happen for quite a while and i forget about the dream until its just about to happen. im hit with a sense of deja vu just before, usually a conversation, rather than an actual event. last night i had such a dream, and it involved two of my friends back home that i wont be able to see for at least another several weeks.
however, i doubt even myself. i know that i am fairly capable of playing out or directing a conversation and guessing peoples responses to what is said or happens. so i just wonder if im doing this in my dreams too. and thereby its all a coincidence?

hmm. 

[SWM]

this might sound an odd question but what would you like it to be?

and could you believe that what you want might be possible?

[Xen]

i cant seem to find any disposition towards wanting it to be true or not, but as for what i want being possible, it COULD...but life's usually not that nice to me 
i posted more to put my personal experiences out there, and see what others thought. maybe help find similarities in such situations of others.
if its a tangible concept, precog seems helpful/weird. (if not, oh well lol)

but the new questions truly are, if it is indeed possible, can it help you influence the outcome of the future and to what degree?

oh, and WHY does it affect some events but not others? my supposed precog dreams haven't all been about drastic things. how is it determined what can be prerecognized? is it random? different for each person?

blaaaaaaaaaaaaargh, too many questions even for myself XP