study suggests positive thinking may cause negative moods

[SWM]

    Joanne Wood of the University of Waterloo in Canada and her colleagues designed a series of experiments [in which] they questioned a group of 68 men and women using long-accepted methods to measure self-esteem. The participants were then asked to spend four minutes writing down any thoughts and feelings that were on their minds. In the midst of this, half were randomly assigned to say to themselves, �I am a lovable person� every time they heard a bell ring.

    Immediately after the exercise, they were asked questions such as, �What is the probability that a 30-year-old will be involved in a happy, loving romance?� to measure individual moods using a scoring system that ranged from a low of zero to a high of 35. Past studies indicated that optimistic answers indicate happy moods.

    As the researchers report in Psychological Science, those with high self-esteem who repeated �I�m a lovable person� scored an average of 31 on their mood assessment compared with an average of 25 by those who did not repeat the phrase. Among participants with low self-esteem, those making the statement scored a dismal average of 10 while those that did not managed a brighter average of 17.

    Dr Wood suggests that positive self-statements cause negative moods in people with low self-esteem because they conflict with those people�s views of themselves. When positive self-statements strongly conflict with self-perception, she argues, there is not mere resistance but a reinforcing of self-perception. People who view themselves as unlovable find saying that they are so unbelievable that it strengthens their own negative view rather than reversing it. Given that many readers of self-help books that encourage positive self-statements are likely to suffer from low self-esteem, they may be worse than useless.

[PsychVegas]

Interesting study. I wonder then, how does a person modify the view of themself? Scaffolding exercises to build self-efficacy?

[liza123]

Brings to mind the book entitled " Law of Attraction" by Michael J. Losier. He mentions that the affirmation theory does not work sometimes(because it is hard to belief as written in the book called "Secret"). The book written by Michael  has a number of exercises as 'affirmation exercises'.

[Kallisti]

I've heard of reality TV being used to boost self esteem.  On the theory that poor self esteem is from comparing yourself to people better than you, watching people who have been specially selected by the producers to be useless will have the opposite effect.

Only really have anecdotal evidence that it works though.

[DarkPoet]

I think that it is a depressing action to knowingly lie to the world and pretend that things are alright. It shoves whatever problems may be occuring back inside, because the truth is, no one is 100% optimistic all the time. We each have things in our life that are stressing or depressing or problematic, and what helps is to express that in order for it to not build and grow and become more than what it is in time.

[liza123]

I think that it is a depressing action to knowingly lie to the world and pretend that things are alright. It shoves whatever problems may be occuring back inside, because the truth is, no one is 100% optimistic all the time. We each have things in our life that are stressing or depressing or problematic, and what helps is to express that in order for it to not build and grow and become more than what it is in time.

Yes, sharing your problems with the right person helps. You feel as if some 'burden' has been removed from you. Keeping it locked inside all only builds and can turn disastrous at a later stage

[Billy_27]

Given that many readers of self-help books that encourage positive self-statements are likely to suffer from low self-esteem, they may be worse than useless.

I am not sure if positive self-statements and affirmations actually work, but many self-help gurus including some I really admire seem to support them.
Anyway, saying "I am a millionaire" a thousand times never made anyone rich.

[hortonpilot]

"Yes, sharing your problems with the right person helps. You feel as if some 'burden' has been removed from you."

Cathartic process is sometimes mysterious , but operates.

A drug/plant called Harmalin has some very interesting properties where it just wipes away stuff from the brain.
Early research showed it to be amazingly powerful .

Any one know of recent research ?



Horton

[acousticeagle]

I think that it is a depressing action to knowingly lie to the world and pretend that things are alright. It shoves whatever problems may be occuring back inside, because the truth is, no one is 100% optimistic all the time.

On this subject I would like to add something on a person I know who fits this kind of description in more than just saying positive things about themselves.

This person had a troubled background with highly-disfunctional parenting (paternal). Did many tearaway things in her younger life, then turned to an Asian religion: a hindu sect and cult. This sect changed her thinking into a 'total' affirmation mode - and I will add that she remained a very confused person the time when she was immersed in the cult.

Many years passed and she is remains on anti-depressants, has formed to become parasitical in her ways towards people using them for money and emotional energy - basically sociopathic. Her behaviour messes with other people and she doesn't have a conscience about that. And while she uses people she says of herself - verbatim: "I'm a good, kind and generous person". She's learned how to act this out, but the real person inside - from the rare glimpses I had of it - is far from those things, as is an angry, confused individual with huge feelings of rejection. While her outward 'persona' is peaceful, it's something she's adopted over long practice. Her actions, however, betray her words.

Funny about words, how deceiving they can be. What I think is that through religious indoctination she has adopted a false persona that she's honed from this long practise. Yet inside is the real person in dire need for emotional healing/psychotherapy.

And so she will continue to act out what she only wants to believe about herself, rather than facing her issues in the light of self-awareness that would make her admit to her true, but submerged, personality.

So I hardly think that positive affirmations really do any lasting good in terms of adopting this mind-over-matter practice as a form of overcoming self-worth issues. As Dark Poet says in the above quote.

[hortonpilot]

Self esteem is an interesting concept ...............

In all likely-hood some rather criminal persons have heaps of it?
So what is it really based on when some who have it  do not conform to the conventional idea?


Horton

[acousticeagle]

Self esteem is an interesting concept ...............
In all likely-hood some rather criminal persons have heaps of it?
So what is it really based on when some who have it  do not conform to the conventional idea?
Horton

Just a quick reply to your question, Horton. What I think is that when criminal persons have heaps of it is that they have an elevated superiority sense. They consider themselves elavated above (somehow) other 'mere' mortals. Slightly off topic, but because you asked. That's IMO.

[hortonpilot]

But it is an interesting idea, the above , esteem of criminals?
Means then that self-esteem is inpart a construct.
Unrelated in some instances to reality?

Notion of justice and social responsibilities do not occur to all people, which is a pity.


Horton

[acousticeagle]

But it is an interesting idea, the above , esteem of criminals?
Means then that self-esteem is inpart a construct.
Unrelated in some instances to reality?
Notion of justice and social responsibilities do not occur to all people, which is a pity.
Horton

I would say it is insanity. I know of a man who was a narcissist who considered himself a greater intellect than others, even when this was proved untrue by his actions and infantile attention-seeking behaviour and boastings - things that less trusting people could see about him. But, even so, he believed of himself that he was superior to others that way; a bizarre self-confidence.

So, the power to how he considered himself came from what he believed of himself:
"For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he" (from Proverbs)

If you want to delve into this a bit more I can recommend "Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us" by Robert D. Hare PhD

[hortonpilot]

How did you come to find this book?

Psychopaths are at the end of the spectrum , yet they exist  in greater numbers that we give credit for. However very few people understand them and we are unprepared when we meet them.

Increasingly we see traits being adopted into mainstream society that are sociopathic.

If we follow my logic,
"Means then that self-esteem is inpart a construct".
Then rebuilding a damaged person is simpler than others would believe us have?

And destroying the self-esteem of a sociopath difficult?


Any ideas brains-trust?

Horton
Unrelated in some instances to reality?

[acousticeagle]

Unrelated in some instances to reality?

Definitely yes. I would say that they are in a self-deceived state, their world-views skewed. Also I would add that their self-confidence could be connected to an excitement, like an adrenalin rush. I have theorised that when a person is out of normal sync, then the psychological state of a person will try to compensate through some other response from the brain. If a sociopath cannot 'feel' like others ie., feel normal empathy that would otherwise stall them from harming someone psychologically, then their brains might try to find another way in which to 'feel'.

I found the book while looking online for books about psychopathy. The other one I can highly recommend is Martha Stout's "The Sociopath Next Door". It's an eye-opening book. I definitely agree with you about sociopathic traits being adopted into main stream society. More electronic gismos for the young, less time out of doors and less time in social interaction particulary with others of older generations, more general wealth etc. Becoming a social creature is a learned experience, socialising in a healthy empathetic flow is something I believe we continue to go on to learn through life. Pathways in the brain have to remain active, eg., the pathways that are active when socialising, I can relate to a muscle that gets a work-out or that atrophies when not in use.

A damaged person must want to be healed. I think there has to be some self-awareness for anyone to want to seek to change. People do a lot of things to compensate for poor self-worth, and it would be expected that most of them would be damaging either to themselves and others.

I don't know whether self-esteem is a construct or just something an individual needs to work on occasionally like the physical health. It might only take one little humiliating incident to test how 'well' anyone's self esteem is. I think there's much to be said for emotional maturity - and probably not enough said/written about it.

Destroying the self esteem of a sociopath? I'm not sure how to answer this one! I really don't think sociopaths think in terms of 'self esteem' at all; they work on a brimming self-confidence without any pause to examine themselves. They know what works on their victims and stick to those methods.

I don't know if I've answered what you've asked. (Maybe there's a lot more that could be said!)

If you're interested you can check out my wordpress blog. Currently heading the site is an article I wrote "Why the Sociopath?" http://acousticeagle.wordpress.com/
I've been working on a series. I keep on learning about it all without having a phd, but writing helps.

[hortonpilot]

Destroying the self esteem of a sociopath? I'm not sure how to answer this one! I really don't think sociopaths think in terms of 'self esteem' at all; they work on a brimming self-confidence without any pause to examine themselves. They know what works on their victims and stick to those methods."

When you the book "The sociopath next door." was there any point where the sociopath could be pulled up ?
i know the book but not read it yet.
At some point the sociopath must find it all too difficult, what is that point?

Life must go wrong for sociopaths like us all and confidence is eroded.......

Sociopathic traits being adopted into mainstream is a reality , i notice some very anti-social traits these days.
In the workplace i am dumbfounded at Human Resources inability to spot this sort of thing, just denial.

After working for myself for twenty years i returned to work in the gov sector what i found was a toxic workplace.
*Interestingly in a few instances i have responded to defend myself in a very calculated way, at the right time.
People who bully or have sociopathic tendencies do not like getting it back.
*What does your reading/research say about this?



Horton

[ELADA]

I definitely believe that positive affirmations cause unconscious negative moods. Expecially in intelligent people.

[hortonpilot]

Suddenly i feel this is getting pretty heavy man!