Is our conscious our body?

[Bill Hemphill]

What part of our body could be identified as our conscious. To be conscientious requires a body to feel. Right?  Don't we respond to our uncomfortable feelings by not doing or thinking that way?

[seekinghga]

My 1.5 cents:
I don't think that the consciousness can be identified as a part of the body.  Traditionally most people associate the head with the position of consciousness, though, people who meditate can confirm that the consciousness can be "transferred" to other parts of the body.  I do agree that our consciousness requires a body and that it is adaptive to various situations as it may.

[eevee.chung]

so, according to what i have learned from my teacher - which is rather pathetic, considering that i'm supposed to be learning english in english class - the concious is not essentially the body. the conscious can be the supreme being, where everything is all at one, or it can be your ego mind that is haunting you. technically, i think if you are hurt mentally or emotionally, it is not the physical that percieves this hurt, instead it is the mental that is being stabbed.
However, if you must name a part of the body, then i'd say brain. your brain contains these emotions and feelings, then it responds, so when you feel hurt, isn't it the mental that responds?

[Bill Hemphill]

I also find it hard to believe that the body is the conscious alone. I would like to understand this part of the psyche better. The conscious is what causes us to be conscientious. Maybe the body is what feels the conscientiousness. Like Chung says, the mental sends signals for chemical response.

I started this topic because I really think it would be beneficial to understand this. I have in the past suspected that I understood. Maybe not. I do know that the conscious is what allows what's appropriate.

[seekinghga]

The consciousness, as it pertains to the EGO, is just a temporary phenomenon.  Just like the breath is dependent on the lungs or the circulation is dependent on the heart.  Consciousness is the same thing, only from the brain.  As I said it is "dependent from a neuro-biological hypostasis." 

[anaklio]

People have long looked for the neuroanatomical correlate of consciousness. Often this is called the "soul". Interesting theories are that it resides in the septal area (Panksepp, 1998) or the claustrum (Crick and Koch, 2005).

[Bill Hemphill]

I see the id as the "lamb" and the subconscious as the spirit of the living God. There are different interpretations and we don't need to accept their off the cuff lack of a complete understanding. Maybe we are leaving out some portions of the psyche?

[Bill Hemphill]

Ok seekinghga. Good angle. That seems really good to me. What part of the psyche is responsible for keeping track of our value system. I believe this could be done easily on a dendrite and something has to respond when the values are not in order so to speak.

[DrmDoc]

What is consciousness?  Well, from a perspective of brain function, consciousness is that awareness of self as a distinct entity that is separate and apart from surrounding influences.  Again from a perspective of brain function, consciousness is a product of the mind and the mind is a product of brain function; therefore, consciousness is a product of brain function.  This is supported by decerebrate and brain injury study.

[seekinghga]

What part of the psyche is responsible for keeping track of our value system. I believe this could be done easily on a dendrite and something has to respond when the values are not in order so to speak.

Interesting proposition.  Sounds like I/O of a computer or machine; or 1 and 0 binary.  It's like a flower that we grow, all of our love is there, but there is a random element--i.e., the brain's discretion (from what we have "taught" it).

[anaklio]

This system can be explicated. Levy (2004) explicated the motivation system.

The cerebral network of motivation particularly relates to the limbic system, i.e., the amygdala, the orbital and ventromedial prefrontal cortex, the anterior cingulum and the ventral striatum.

The value system would also be a complex array of neuroanatomical sites. And missing from Levy's work, is the complex neurochemical system used within the circuit.

[liza123]

Interesting proposition.  Sounds like I/O of a computer or machine; or 1 and 0 binary.  It's like a flower that we grow, all of our love is there, but there is a random element--i.e., the brain's discretion (from what we have "taught" it).

i agree with you on this.
if we equate consciousness with our brain or body(in a physcial sense),then, what happens after we die? the brain is still there.so, why did it stop functioning?what happened?
consciousness...our experiences, values taught to us, etc....makes up the value system...what we taught the brain as seekinghga aptly said

[anaklio]

Plutarch questioned whether a ship would remain the same if it were entirely replaced, piece by piece. This "paradox" is known as the "Ship of Theseus".

I bring this up because if I transplant your brain into another body or a machine, are you still "you"?

[DrmDoc]

...if I transplant your brain into another body or a machine, are you still "you"?

I think the answer to this is no and yes, which is a matter of identity.  Is such a transplant was possible, one's physical identity would change while one's mental identity would remain unchanged.  I would still, for example, think of myself as DrmDoc regardless of where my viable brain resided.  In the eyes of others, the transplanted would probably not be perceived as whom they were previously.  However, in the minds of the transplanted, nothing has changed other than their outward identity--in my opinion.

[anaklio]

Such a transplant is likely possible.
And, of course, there's always the "keeping a head alive apart from its body" proposal.
[q.v., If We Can Keep a Severed Head Alive...Discorporation and U.S. Patent 4,666,425]

One of things that people under-estimate is the effect of how we are perceived on how we think.
That is, we often become what society labels us irrespective of what we desire.
Thus I don't think you could maintain your identity well after the transplant.

[DrmDoc]

One of things that people under-estimate is the effect of how we are perceived on how we think.
That is, we often become what society labels us irrespective of what we desire.
Thus I don't think you could maintain your identity well after the transplant.

I disagree; sexuality identity issues of the kind that lead to gender reassignment seem to suggest our ability to maintain a mental identity that conflicts with how society perceives us physically.  I think this is convincing evidence that what we think we are is refrequently not what we are physically or how others try to influence us.

[anaklio]

Interesting point and thanks for your comment, DrmDoc. I'm not sure it is wise to draw large inferences from that small population.

Speaking of trangender issues, I just found this new fascinating new paper by Alvarez-Díaz (2009) in the literature. Here's a nice summary of the author's ideas.

The presence of a transsexual pregnant male in the mass media has made people reassess if transsexuals should have access to assisted reproduction. The bioethical discussion should focus on the future child best interests. This article describes the story of this transsexual man, legally married to a woman in the state of Oregon in the United States. A brief overview of transsexuality and the specific characteristics of this case, with special considerations towards fertility in transsexual people is included. We suggest reflections on what constitutes motherhood and fatherhood and bioethical considerations brought forth by this groundbreaking event.

[voodoo scientist]

Body and consciousness are inseperable. The brain does not think in the absence of stimuli, it thinks about stimuli - one might say it adapts to the environment. Without a body - no sensory organs, hence no sensory memory, hence no short term memory, hence no long term memory and finally, hence no consciousness. Yes, this extends to sexual identity and other things traditionally considered to be in the same domain as the soul, free will and unicorns.

For instance: If your brain was transplanted into a new body that did not have your DNA, you would die, painfully, from rejection. If it did have your DNA, it would for all intents and purposes be your body and nothing would change.

[seekinghga]

For instance: If your brain was transplanted into a new body that did not have your DNA, you would die, painfully, from rejection. If it did have your DNA, it would for all intents and purposes be your body and nothing would change.

Yes, for instance.  But isn't that a tad sci-fi?  How would the consciousness register in the body?  How would it feel pain unless the nerves were sutured?  This whole paragraph I quoted is sci-fi.

[anaklio]

In the "living without a body" proposition, your head could serve as the body. You would still be able to feel, taste, touch, hear, and smell, so all would be relatively well. You could have yourself placed in a golf cart controlled by command.

[voodoo scientist]

In the "living without a body" proposition, your head could serve as the body. You would still be able to feel, taste, touch, hear, and smell, so all would be relatively well. You could have yourself placed in a golf cart controlled by command.

You would lose all the nerve cells outside the head, altering your consciousness.

[anaklio]

Good point. You'd also experience some nasty "phantom limb" type experiences as well. These problems are gradually being solved though.

[Enigma]

Consciousness is the sum of of the input from all parts of the body.  The head is the control center, but the entire body is involved. 

[anaklio]

So some one who loses a limb loses part of their consciousness ?

[Enigma]

That's why we have multiple body parts. 

[anaklio]

Do newts change their consciousness when they grow new tails?

[Enigma]

No.  The tail is still connected to the same body. 

[anaklio]

When they lose their tail, do they lose some of their consciousness which then re-appears with their new tail ?

[voodoo scientist]

So some one who loses a limb loses part of their consciousness ?

They don't "lose" anything. Consciousness isn't a linear scale where an infant starts at 1 and you strive to progress towards 100. Consciousness is simply our perception of our nervous system, and the loss of nerve cells connected to the system alters it. Losing even a finger will have an effect on that consciousness - a common example of which could be something so simple as the individual talking about his lost finger.