The Two Psychopaths in My Life

[acousticeagle]

Why me I ask? But I guess I can answer my own question. My parents raised me to be too naive and trusting - so when my psychopathic future husband came along, I was 'ready' to be deceived into believing all the lies he told to get control over me. The other thing is, t.hat he was a narcissist - and if anyone knows about narcissim, he fit all the criteria - ie completely selfish and self absorbed/interested, overinflated entitlement sense, a bragged etc. We moved house just about every year we were together - this is because he would open his mouth too much and people got tired of it, so his idea was to run to the next place. But I have been divorced for 10 years now and have not spoken to him since, even though we have two children and both live with him and his 3rd wife. I have found that dealing with psychopaths is like this...you don't, if you want to save your sanity.

I knew he was a narcissist, years after I divorced him I did my reading and gave his personality disorder a name. But it wasn't until I read the book by Robert Hare "The Psychopaths Among Us" I was able to identity the psychopathy.

Sigh..this situation has remained managable, but one other psychopath in my life has not. I call it my 'double whammy (my two psychopaths)'. My sister is also a psychopath. I moved to another state a couple of years ago and lived with her for two short months until I one night she put the bite on me for more money. She continually used me up for emotional energy and money until I got to thinking I was her 'supply'. She even treated me like I had to look after her, like a woman would treat a husband! She's hugely in debt, and of course, out came all the 'pity' stories - and there's no shame in what she does.

She's had many many problems over the years, one was her involvement in a religious cult that almost drove the family crazy. Also, earlier in her life she had the opportunity to marry 3 respectable men, but ended up with a bikie with a drug habit. My parents, then, tried to stop that marriage and failed. Unfortunately I'm living with my parents for a while until I can get my own place, but this is causing continued problems in the family. My other sister is very close to the psychopathic one and is very protective of our elderly parents and my two sisters are both much older than me. So I'm on the 'outer' now - because I won't have anything to do with the psychopath (that actress has them all fooled!) and I won't go to any family get togethers. And so, this is what psychopaths do, control, manipulate - and they don't care how they upset you, as long as they get their way and they have a very sneaky subtle way of doing that. They never have any conscience about what they do. I'm being 'blamed' for my own behaviour in shunning her, and this has made my situation almost impossible.

Whereas if a psychopath is not a family member you can (usually) successfully shun them. But if it's a family member - where does that leave you? In my circumstance I'm a bit stuck until I can get my own place - hopefully that won't be too long. It's very hard because the psychopath is so charming (like my sister is) that everyone in the family likes to take the easy path and keep burying heads in the sand about her. Apparently I'm the one causing the trouble! Lately I've been hearing from my mother things about what she did as a youngster (like trouble at her school) and I see that she had personality disorder early in life. Now she's grown to be a 60 year old psychopath and knows how to be a really old snake.

Psychopaths can ruin lives. Has anyone read Martha Stout's book 'The Psychopath Next Door'?. It was with this book I identified my sister's personality disorder and all the lights went on for me. Until I get my own place again, I feel very stuck and even trapped in this unhappy family situation. And I cannot explain to my family what I know about my sister being psychopathic. I doubt with their limited understand and prejudices they would have any more sympathy for my plight. I don't work due to a disability, but I do need to live independantly again. It's very hard finding a place of reasonable rent where I live.

[voodoo scientist]

There are a lot of pop. psychology psychopathy books out right now. Most of the ones I have read do not go well enough out of their way to describe a common phenomenon in psychology: the fact that you tend to read all disorders in light of yourself or people you know. I would be extremely careful before making a diagnosis of psychopathy in two people in your life (this is a very rare disorder - not like you see on TV, where everyone's a psychopath lately), especially if you are not a professional.

It's important to understand that psychopaths control people pathologically, not always following some "master plan" with mechanical dedication for their entire lives, and thus it's extremely rare to encounter 60 year old full blown psychopaths with intact family relations - statistically, they will have screwed things up with any given relationship at some point (as you saw with your first husband).

I would perhaps focus less on how psychopathic and dangerous they are, and more on how you can learn techniques to deal with manipulative people in general. A great layman's book is "In Sheep's Clothing" by George K. Simon. This book focuses less on scaring you into buying and believing in it, and more on how to identify and deal with manipulative strategies.

[S. Earl Martin]

Good answer VooDoo. I agree.
acousticeagle: The only person you can really change is yourself. Decide what you want in life and who you want to be. Set goals to acheive these things. If you have fallen into realitionships where you felt you were taken advantage of. Look for the reasons you allowed yourself to be taken advantage of and change your actions to prevent it from happening again. Unless the other person uses physical force you should be able to put a stop to it. Envision the person you want to be and set about becoming that person. Peace

[kisselj]

Just as a quick FYI: There is no such thing as a "Psychopath" it is not a DSM IV - TR diagnosis. Also, I wouldn't put too much stock in pop psychology books...

Just a thought,
Jason

[acousticeagle]

In the three responses there are some noteworthy points made. As to my intro into my post the "why me" - well, yes I could answer my own question. But the problem wasn't that I have not remained a victim, but have gone on to educate myself. Just the other day I picked up a book that deals with the sociopathic personality, and, maybe in response to the third post about what to name someone with a sociopathic/psychopathic personality disorder  - that is, a person who continually exhibits a behaviour pattern that is habitually self-seeking, manipulative of others, using of other people without a 'normal' empathatic conscience regardless of how they victimise - then it's a matter of debate about what to 'name' them.

I was in a  group on the net that was for people who have a psychopath in their lives. Many told stories of emotional and financial (and both) devastation. They were still surviving the wake of problems that the disordered person has caused them. The advice on that website was that the only satisfactory answer in the short term was avoidance of that person or the 'no contact' rule. This is the one I adopted to deal with my sibling - much to my continued problems with the wider family (which is why I posted into this posting category).

First on what to name them. I think it might be hard to really appreciate what it is like to deal with someone who has this personality. I called it "Psychopathy" as a general heading. But I might well have called it 'sociopathy' or 'antisocial personality disorder'. In my latest reading sociopathy can vary to degrees - from criminality and to lesser degrees where other people are affected in marriages, other relationships and workplaces.

The characteristics of the narcissist are also headed under sociopathy in the reading I have done. Here's some traits (which I attributed to my ex). This list is from wikipedia:

    Aggressive narcissism

   1. Glibness/superficial charm
   2. Grandiose sense of self-worth
   3. Pathological lying
   4. Cunning/manipulative
   5. Lack of remorse or guilt
   6. Emotionally shallow
   7. Callous/lack of empathy
   8. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

Unfortunately at the time I was a good target for someone like this due to having an undiagnosed chronic fatigue condition and a need to be liberated from a dysfunctional family situation. He saw me as a good target - someone he could easily control.

Here's some more:
    Socially deviant lifestyle

   1. Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
   2. Parasitic lifestyle
   3. Poor behavioral control
   4. Promiscuous sexual behavior
   5. Lack of realistic, long-term goals
   6. Impulsiveness
   7. Irresponsibility
   8. Juvenile delinquency
   9. Early behavioral problems
  10. Revocation of conditional release

The second lot of criteria I attribute more to my sibling. (Longer story here).

I think that it is difficult to catorgorise a sociopathic personality into box category (re third response). This is because they can be like Martha Stout says in her book "The Sociopath Next Door" - the sociopath could be someone you have known or do know - but they are good at hiding it. One book that I have read says that the incidence can be 2% of the population for males, and 1% for females. (Pardon me for not citing the book but I have forgotten its title and author right now). But once you have had dealings with a person like this, you don't forget and you'll be on your guard. The trouble is, that most sociopaths are good at what they do, good at hiding their real reasons for currying your favour, using you up (etc)- are great manipulators.

Ok, I'm not a professional, but I've learned a lot, and I'm careful to discuss this only with people who might have some understanding. But this personality disordered type of individual is worthy of discussion because of how they affect lives so devastatingly.

To the first response to my post, I'm continuing to read on the subject. The latest book has been very informative thus far and is broad reaching in its text about people with a sociopathic personality disorder. The problem with becoming too clinical about 'naming' is that knowledge about them becomes an exclusivity and less people are going to be informed through lack of  information and personal stories  by which to be educated and, if they themselves have been troubled by such a person, finding out for themselves that symptomatic behaviour could be classified as 'something' by which they can find understanding and validation for their being victimised.

Thanks for your responses.

[pinkmint]

Tricky situation...when the real You starts to shine through the ego, some people(your wider family) can't accept the change. Your too difficult to deal with!! which is now their problem and not yours!...yet, as frustrating as it sounds,(your need for true intimacy, openness, honesty, and theirs for control),  you've learned a core need! and woe betide anyone that goes against one of these!!
good luck and stay strong in there!    

[pinkmint]

Also, Know your avoidance of them (if thats what you choose to do)is also a form of control, even if its only to escape the frustrating  conflict! something I've learned in my time!

[S. Earl Martin]

Sounds like you are taking steps to investigate and deal with you situation rationally. That is the best plan of action. We as observers and not directly involved in your situation can only make limited suggestions. However I believe most people here are actually trying to be helpful.

I have had to deal with similar people in my life. My wife was brainwashed by a "church/cult" and they nearly destroyed our lives until I was finally able to show her the cult tactics they were using and get her away from them. So I have a pretty good idea of where you are coming from. Not exactly the same situation, but close enough. Good Luck and be Blessed.

[hortonpilot]

acousticeagle,

                     don't be hard on yourself please.
You have taken what steps you can to manage the situation.
Safe distance at all times guards you.

Contrary to what some say actual "user manual' for dealing with these people is near impossible to find, i started here on these boards in an attempt to find one but no luck.
Life on the edge with these sociopaths is at best difficult.
People pretend to know how to manage them , your best option is to find a shrink who has worked in the prison system as they have the best chance of knowing something.

In your future you need not to connect with these destructive people as they will compromise your happiness.

If you find the "user manual " let me know please?


Horton

[acousticeagle]

Thanks for the above responses to my posts and for the encouragement, something we can all do with at times.

A book I've found very helpful and comprehsive, written by Dr Helen McGrath and Hazel Edwards is "Difficult Personalities- a Practical Guide to Managing the Hurtful Behaviour of Others". It  says in the intro that much of the material in this book is based on  the categories of behaviour disorders outlined in the  DSM -1V. It is less sensational than the book by Stout (which is entertaining as far as reading-sake goes) and less attributing to the criminal behaviours described in Hare's book. It goes into the sociopathic personality disorder very well, along with management strategies.

Pinkmint, I think you've nailed it. My family find they cannot push me around like they might think they could - after all education is a good defense! - and in that, standing up for oneself in rational argument rather than emotional responses.

I guess the one remaining thing about having had a sociopath (or two) mess with your head, finances and emotions is the absolute frustration. Because unless you can pinpoint examples of their behaviour and the factual consequences (I was able to do that to a point) then it's getting the validation of how one has been victimised. They play 'head games'. For some reason the sociopath is able to hone in on weakness in their 'victims' and exploit that. I reckon they might pride themselves on their ability to do this. One thing they are most definitely are 'con artists'. In the raising of children, this is something I would be teaching mine...how to spot and avoid a 'con'.

[hortonpilot]

"I have had to deal with similar people in my life. My wife was brainwashed by a "church/cult" and they nearly destroyed our lives until I was finally able to show her the cult tactics they were using and get her away from them"

Someone here commented elsewhere on this matter , can't find it,pity.

Yes ,tragic that religion commonly coerces people into doing things.

I always had a problem with authority and it was funny despite acting passive could never get invites to religious cult stuff........
This made me realise how sinister it all was and that people were screened very carefully. I wondered what gave me away?

Sociopaths!

What is said about there charm and other traits is right, despite the carnage they cause it is difficult to convince even sensible people that they are in danger.
Strange that despite the track record they have and the way the live and effect people who come in contact people still are drawn to them?
Where do they find the energy?

My problems with the one who lives nearby continue to upset me on a daily basis.
Never stops for me.

Horton.