Psychotherapists are not using psychotherapy . . .

[Bill Hemphill]

It's a problem in this field of medicine. It's as though they found a cheat sheet in college and now they just want to catch little symptoms and "call it". A real hazard to people seeking treatment.

It does little good to simply talk to someone about their past. People asking for psychotherapeutic help should receive just that. Not social working which helps a person deal with society while their problem continues.

You must follow the energy. So to speak.

[SWM]

Hi Bill

Do you have a particular example where this is the case?

[Bill Hemphill]

SWM, I am just a little annoyed at hearing many Psychotherapists sit and listen to drug addicts and alcoholics and rebut them with words like "this is an illness that can never be corrected". Here in the US we have addiction shows that show people going through a "recovery program" and in each show they are told that they can never get over their addiction.

It is a psychological event that can be corrected with another Psychological event. I cured myself of alcoholism. I have no desire to drink. None. When I have been around people drinking and wondered if it was alright to drink(after all of these years), I  have contemplated it for about ten seconds and decided I was so fortunate to not feel the need to achieve some sort of happiness by drinking. I just say "there has got to be something I would rather be doing than drink".

When a therapist sits and listens without performing some sort of Psychological function, They are not using Psychiatric medicine. Long talks can help get to the bottom of a Psychosis. But an addiction is a neurosis.

[rmetherapy.com]

Hey Bill, I am very surprised to read your first paragraph above. To tell patients' that they have an "illness that can never be cured" is something I have never come across.

Ive even been repudiated by a supervisor for stating that there was nothing that could be done for a particular patient suffering from schizoaffective disorder. That all people are capable of healing and there is always hope even for minor progress. I now wholeheartedly agree

Addiction, even with its deletorious effects is something that can be overcome with education and a sense of personal empowerment (ie the MICA program). Although examining the past can lead to insight into a problem, choices and action in the present moment determine whether or not it becomes resolved

[Social Work PD]

I've been a therapist for a long time and I can honestly not recall ever hearing that drug and/or alcohol dependence being untreatable.  The AMA (American Medical Association) called addiction a disease to support their way of thinking and for the money it could generate. 

Social Workers, by the way do not only deal with social issues; we also do therapy (those of us who went the clinical social work route), by the way.  Our philosophy is that all people have the potential to better themselves however they define "better".  Addiction is a life-long struggle for some.  It is truly a learned coping skill.  It isn't a particularly healthy coping skill, but it works.  Now, luckily, for many people it stops working and then they start searching for a new way of dealing with life.  That is where treatment comes in.  There are all kinds of treatment for addiction as no one way works for all.  However, since addiction develops out of a person's need to cope then there is a need to find out what got someone using in the first place.  Addiction is not the original problem.  It is a coping skill that creates problems of its own.

I think the show you are watching that say the person can never get over their addicition are talking about addiction is not actually curable.  There is plenty of unfortunate evidence of people have many decades of sobriety and relapsing.  AA, which is one of the most widely used methods to attain and maintain sobriety, say themselves that they are in recovery, not cured.  AA was developed by an alcoholic (to use his nomenclature).  The mere fact that you said you contemplated drinking for even 10 seconds speaks to what AA is talking about. 

Addiction is not psychosis.  Psychosis is something very different.  Addiction is not an neurosis (the mental health field doesn't use that word anymore).  Addiction is a coping skill gone awry. 

I think it is wonderful that you are sober.  Focus on that and not what other people are saying with which you don't agree.

[docjp]

SWM,
When a therapist sits and listens without performing some sort of Psychological function, They are not using Psychiatric medicine. Long talks can help get to the bottom of a Psychosis. But an addiction is a neurosis.

Actually, the longest it should take to fairly identify the "conflict" within a persons MIND, would be ten minutes talking by the client.  It it takes longer, the therapist is not competent and is not properly trained.

Peace

[Bill Hemphill]

In the US it has been stated as fact on television and courts that  addictions are forever and merely a part of the genetics.

It is great to hear you guys state otherwise. I am more at home now with Psychology since reading your posts today.

Social Work PD, rmetherapy, It was great hearing from you.

To share a little, I met a woman at a church that I have gone to that stated she was surprised to hear that I once drank. She asked if I ever felt  the desire to drink or had to fight off the urge by being strong. I answered no and explained to her that I began pioneering just how the mind works when I was a boy. I used my understandings on myself and in time it was all over. I explained that I had transferred the exact same energy that was attached to drinking with something new and told her how to do it. She claims her long term alcoholic husband does not go to the taverns anymore and they spend a lot of time together.

Motion sickness is really easy. I can cure a person in a day. Thanks for the responses, all.

[Bill Hemphill]

Social Work PD, addiction is in no way a skill. It is a side effect from one telling their self not to drink while the urge to drink is present. To want to do something that one does not want to do is neurosis.

AA fails to help people,  98 -99% of all who have tried. Their so called coping skills is another way of them saying that they do not understand psychology. I have never relapsed because there is nothing to relapse. This is one of the fundamental flaws of  AA's approach to alcoholism. I never struggle. I did not struggle with  drinking for ten seconds. I contemplated  my old position and was glad I successfully treated myself for alcoholism and thought sadly for the others who I knew would never seem to understand just how the mind works.

After years of pioneering the mind I see myself as an expert. I feel sorry for so many psychotherapists and particularly their patients when you know that the patients are not being treated. It's mostly a scam.

[Bill Hemphill]

Social Work PD, if you want help understanding neurosis and how addiction is related to neurosis just send me a bunch of money and I'll tell you. hee hee hee!

[voodoo scientist]

Many psychotherapists are improperly or outright poorly trained. Many are not up to date on current research, and even more frequently make incorrect diagnoses and use wrong treatments. However, noone who is properly trained would not say that 'addictions are forever,' and I believe you would be hard, hard pressed to find an influential research psychologist who would claim as much for the past 3-5 years.

[Bill Hemphill]

If it helps you Voodoo, addiction and drive are different. I know that. You might want to look up "Attribution theory".

I forgive you, I see that is a problem for you. It must be difficult for you to try to memorize all of your knowledge that you believe through attribution and attempt to understand how the psyche works. Don't give up. I think you can do it!

[Bill Hemphill]

Don't get me wrong. The path you are on, it would be impossible to understand the psyche. You have to let go of your approach to psychology which seems to be saturated with attribution theory which is social not psychological. good luck

[voodoo scientist]

I'm very curious as to how you deduced that my understanding of the psyche is "based in attribution theory."

[Bill Hemphill]

You do not understand the psyche. That is a fact. When you can properly define neurosis and begin to be critical of the text's used to teach or guide versus accepting everything said by the greats before us that admitted they did not understand how the mind works, you will begin to understand how the mind works. I do understand how the mind works and wished to discuss with others in an open forum only to find out that I would be closed out by those that adhere to the old fashion incapable ways that still are in FORCE.

The mind is about energy and it's levels attached to the components of society. When you realize this you will be able to treat any person in short time. They will be cured forever not something they have to deal with for the rest of their lives or spend a year in therapy, well, for some individuals, it may take more than a year and this will be because of the philosophy they have adopted. It could take time to break through that. But these are things that can be fundamentally known and used almost like troubleshooting.

One day what I have said here will be used by Psychologists on an everyday basis and guys like Carl Jung and Sig Freud will be satisfied. They will also realize just how close they were. They pounded some of the mechanics with extreme understanding which we much appreciate if possible.                

I am adding my address if someone decides to talk to me later. In the mean time I am not going to post here.

     Bill Hemphill
     27 Logan rd
     Alton, IL 62002 U.S.A.

[voodoo scientist]

Neurosis is only a part of the personality, which is only a part of behavior, which is only a part of the human psyche. While Jung and Freud were both esteemed psychologists in their time and should certainly be held in regard for their contributions to our understanding of psychology, the fact is that their theories have largely fallen to the wayside in favor of modern models with better descriptive, predictive and therapeutic qualities than theirs.

[Sparrowhawk1161]

I don't think it is as much as improperly trained therapists!  Therapists have to go through a lot to be certified.  It's probably more to do with the individual who is doing the therapy.

What do therapists do?  They use their knowledge of psychology and psychotherapy to properly identify certain problems you might have.  They create a specific type of relationship with you.  You talk...they clarify...they ask questions to find out the deep seated problems you have and formulate a constuctive plan on how YOU can deal with your own problems....

The problem is that you are dealing with a human being.  Let's say the therapist is having a bad day.  He/she must be able to clear that from their mind and concentrate on you.  If the therapist can not do that...therapy goes wrong!  Let's say the therapist's personality and you clash...he must be able to divide his own response to your own personality to be OBJECTIVE.

What does this mean?

You need another therapist.

Example?  I had a therapist who would talk through the whole session without me saying anything.  He was shouting the breeze with me.  I also had one who wasn't even interested in me at all.  I mean at all!  He was overbooked and didn't really want me in the first place.  When a therapist ignores you or crosses his/her legs ina defensive position and looks at everything but you when you talk...that's not a good therapist.

A therapist has your complete and undivided attention for the hour or so he/she has you.  If not, what are paying the person for?  Your waisting your money!

Now, therapists when they listen to you will interupt to ask you questions...some of the questions can make a negative reaction.  This is normal.  The therapist is trying to find the deep rooted problems you have...find them...formulate a plan of action that YOU can follow to help yourself.  Therapists don't cure your problems...YOU DO!  Being pissed off at a therapist is nothing unusual... it's their job.

But, if the therapist has no interest in you by showing body launguage you can see that clearly states...YOUR WASTING MY TIME!  Or, the therapist is talking to you and not listening to what you want to say through every session...FIND A NEW THERAPIST!

Therapists have the right stuff!  It's how they treat you that is the problem.  If you are not comfortable with a therapist because they are NOT listening.  wrong therapist...find a new one...



A therapist LISTENS to you.  Clarifies and asks questions that elicit a response in the nature of finding out whats going on in YOUR mind.  Not his!

[Bill Hemphill]

Voodoo, I'd like you to speak more of these therapeutic models. Also, point out how they are NOT attribution. Show also how they are psyche oriented. How are they working with the psyche in a mechanical or fundamental way?

Bill

[sure]

Hi! I also made this experience: Scientists are using me for their science and worse the problem instead of healing someone. Also the minister of this reagion even mentioned this problem:. People don't get well again, but go to the hospital again and again. they are increasing dependencies in the region here in german; independance isn't long ago, doctors are old - they don't know much about self-reliouns, but make money and think the whole thing is about a monetaery and mential dependance. They really do! INCREASE DEPENDANCIES! E.g an doctor of min - Folke Sumfleth (Dipl. med.) - went to the drug addictance office and I can't simply get rid on him - I'm unable to. He shaots 'Mama, mama!" Although I want to get rid of her - and she makes monexy and moneay with it, my psychotherapia! I think hospitals here in the suburbs of hamburg are a mess alltogether. Whereas indepeant psychiatrists whom you pay privatly are much better. I do have some expereince in ppp (public-private partnerships). HOW THEY SUCK,THOSE HOSPITALS. Whether private or public, whether left or right wing. thy think: integrade her here, give her a sort of job etc. It's damn tough to get rid of them again after psychotherapia is over. They suck. etc.  call me a chronical sick - who needs doctors again and again. But not just some sort of doctor a, but expecially them! I want to have choices:choose my doctor, It's my choice whether to think of him, yes or no and not that he thinks of me the whole time through. v. cramer e.g. PAINTED my problems all the other way around in his computer, shouted at me and fucked me.- it's a scandal altogether who medicine is in this region. HOW THEY REALLY MAKE AN HANDICAPPED OUT OF U. And do not heal.
Cheers,
Cheers,
Christine Patschull


P.S. They steal your and my ideas! (a crime by law) and manipulate you which causes a depressive order. (how everything in mood is sicketc.)
How you simply can't get well in this region, because you have a mood. A friend of mine - Katinka Junge - has made this experience also. 14 days of hospital - 20 years of reconvery with the doctor in your mind. They biuld hospital with you as they build universities with you - how they use you all up. Enstead of leaving me alone, letting me do my own show, run my own show and find my own healthy ressources and my own, chosen environment. Yes, in psychology/ mental medicine here they addict you and increase dependancies. allthough the time of being a british colony is over. and by the way - thank you for this! etc. Time has been much better with you than without you! IT#s a mess here in the suburbs of Hamburg. Farmers wereever you go, no jobs etc.

[Bill Hemphill]

Thank you Christine for your helpful contribution to this thread.

Psychology owes much to all of the people they have dragged through the mud of idiocy and then labeled the person "difficult".

When a person finally decides to go to a therapist they have broken down there protective barriers and agreed to let a therapist of the Psyche help them.

They at that point believe that the therapist knows something that can help them. They believe that the therapist understands the structure of the psyche and can "untie any knots" or bring order to their way of thinking so they can get on with their lives.

Instead they find a Psychiatrist or Psychotherapist that has studied Psychology and has no idea what they are doing. They have almost no ability to treat a patient. They spend their time "identifying" the person to their own satisfaction and use NO psychotherapy to treat the patient as if they don't believe in psychology or the psyche. If the patient tells the doctor the doctor is wrong the patient is labeled difficult.

There is a place for social work but if you want to treat someone for a psychological problem, you must interact with the psyche.  Bill

[Enigma]

More attention needs to be paid to psychedelic drug-aided psychotherapy.  There's a large body of work on the subject from the 60's and recently there's been a resurgence in interest in psychedelic therapy.  MAPS recently completed a  MDMA-assisted psychotherapy pilot study in Switzerland and clinical trials are underway in the US. 



I found a good paper on the subject titled "The neurobiology of psychedelic drugs: implications for the treatment of mood disorders"
http://rapidshare.com/files/415713618/LSD_OCD.pdf

[Bill Hemphill]

On more than one occasion, I've heard it said that 5HTP is beneficial in helping people get the energy levels to drop to a livable level, such as adrenaline.  PTSD can be alleviated with 5HTP. It is finally available here in the US over the counter. In studies, Psyche patients wanted more of the 5HTP and no more of the drugs that dope a person out of their ability to think. They complained that when the drugs took their ability to think away, it only postpones the ability to solve their problem.

[sure]

I've got this father - (to become  a l l  simple) : He's an electrician who spends most of his time in bed. The bed has a a socket beside his head and his head's got a tumor on the forhead outside. Some years ago he needed a surgery therefore and here I am with 5HTP. That's it !! What to do? (He shouts at me!; I can't tell him to move his bed; he beats me up. The room is all burned out. and then there's this muse whom he gives all my values and treasurable things and loves)
Christine

[Enigma]

On more than one occasion, I've heard it said that 5HTP is beneficial in helping people get the energy levels to drop to a livable level, such as adrenaline.  PTSD can be alleviated with 5HTP. It is finally available here in the US over the counter. In studies, Psyche patients wanted more of the 5HTP and no more of the drugs that dope a person out of their ability to think. They complained that when the drugs took their ability to think away, it only postpones the ability to solve their problem.

So where exactly do you get these "studies"?

[Sparrowhawk1161]

One thing that wasn't addressed about addictions is the biochemical nature.  Getting into an addiction is someone's way of coping with specific situations that have stress.  "Self-medicating."

One of the reasons it is hard to stop is that the body tries to except the drug (Alcohol). the body tries to adjust itself to the chemical to find some type of normality.  When the body adjusts to the chemical and the person stops using it...withdraw.  This becomes "wicked" since the person will try to keep using the whatever means they're using to medicate themselves because of the body craves the chemical.  Even after sobrity is reached their is the enviromental factor.  The person is thrown back into the situations that causes the problem in the first place.

That's when new coping mechanisms must be attained.

Self medicating does't help.  The root of the problem is never attained and the desire to use the drug (alcohol) never goes away. Once a person learns new coping skills it gets easier.

Now, I'm not addressing the relapse problem.  When coping skills fail or the stress level peaks at certain times...the memory of self medicating is still there and the drug or alcohol is easily obtained.

Now, hereditary factors are questionable.  If you have an uncle who is an alcoholic does that mean you have a pre-disposition to alcohol?  We do know that fetal alcohol sydrome can have a definite impact.  If you were having alcohol as a steady diet before you were born...the chemical changes in the new born could definietly lead to a problem...

Heredity?  If you Father drank alcohol...does it effect the chromozomes or DNA, RNA patterns in his sperm to actually create a disposition?  Is there research that I don't know about that does this?

[Bill Hemphill]

Enigma, do you think studies are not worthy of your attention?

[Enigma]

I'm not quite sure how you managed to deduce that but no, studies are quite worthy of my attention. 

In studies, Psyche patients wanted more of the 5HTP and no more of the drugs that dope a person out of their ability to think. They complained that when the drugs took their ability to think away, it only postpones the ability to solve their problem.

I'd like to at least see an abstract for this study.  It sounds rather made up.

[sure]

recently I heard a speech by a psychotherapeutic teacher.
he said "reduce not more than 10mg of 5htp per month.
rest a lot... 'cause  you need calm! and back-up with a doctor."
thanks, bill, sparrowhawk, enigma?

[Bill Hemphill]

Enigma, I viewed it on Public Television. They complained of drugs causing them to lose the ability to think. The 5HTP was actually lowering their adrenaline levels. This would make it easier for them to judge their future actions better because the levels of energy associated with their thoughts are not associated with an unnecessarily  high level of energy. Hope that helps.

[Bill Hemphill]

Think of a Psychiatrist being a telephone repairman.

The patient goes in and says, "I am having phone problems, I need help". How does the phone work? The repairman says, "you talk in one end and the sound comes out the other end on the other side of town". (Notice, that's how one might use the phone.)

"But how does that happen?" The doc says, "if you have paid your bill it should work". The patient says I've done all of that and it is not functioning properly. The doc says, "then you should be hospitalized".

"But doc, how does the psyche work"? He says, "you are being difficult and should be given drugs".

Just as there is an explanation as to how the phone works, we can understand how the psyche works and stop giving the type of sociology answers like Enigma and Voodoo are giving.

Psychology professionals should use psychology to treat patients with psychological problems . . . they are not . . . and that is why they are 1-3% successful. They should be 95-100% successful. This is fact.

Bill

[SWM]

are people inh this thread aware that psychology, psychotherapy and psychiatry are not the same profession and operate from fundamentally different premises different?