Personal counseling

[pljames]

I now see when I was having personal counseling why I was rebelling against the statement (learn to accept and deal with it). In my believed the incident was not my fault but the other persons. I created the problem but refused to beleive I did. It would seem from that through the experience taught me that the human factor in psychology, is greatly complex. I was going through denial instead of taking responsibility for my beliefs and actions.

I was refusing to accept any truth as reality, so in turn created my own delusion as my truth so as not to hear see know the reality of the truth I refused to acknowledge. My question is how does (be it a thearpist or parent) persuade (for lack of other words) another person they are believing a lie and not accepting a truth they refuse to believe? The word truth has many varibles to believe or reject as truth. I see now how can I use that experience to help others? Thoughts please. pljames

[SWM]

wow! reading this makes everything i do on this forum worth while!

i will try to answer your question asap!

[S. Earl Martin]

SWM I told you you are a good dude. This sight has helped me also. When I was resuscitated I had trouble putting my thoughts together, I couldn't spell or string two sentences together, but when I started posting here it helped reconnect the pathways in my brain as well as help me deal with my wifes death. Also I have learned a lot and made some very good friends, so you are providing a valuble service that is greatly appreciated. Earl

[SWM]

I was refusing to accept any truth as reality, so in turn created my own delusion as my truth so as not to hear see know the reality of the truth I refused to acknowledge. My question is how does (be it a thearpist or parent) persuade (for lack of other words) another person they are believing a lie and not accepting a truth they refuse to believe? The word truth has many varibles to believe or reject as truth. I see now how can I use that experience to help others? Thoughts please. pljames

by saying you want to persuade a person they are believing a lie you are saying that you know the truth about the reality they live in. if you want to help this "other person" you might be better to rid yourself of the idea that you believe the truth and they believe a lie. if you are holding that attitude you are creating a point of resistance between yourself and the other person. even if you know the person is wrong based on measurable objective evidence you would still be better to rid yourself of this attitude. this is the point were failure occurs and reoccurs. until you are free from the notion that you know and they dont,you will return to this point of resistance and failure.

so getting rid of the attitude of "i know, they dont know", you will achieve better results taking the attitude "what do they know that i dont?". this puts you in the position of curious observer, interested on looker. from this position you can ask questions such as how does that work? what does that mean? how do you know that is true? who says this is true? what would happen if you did/didnt do this...? asking questions that begin with who, what, when, and how will lead the other person to give information about there perspective. avoid asking "why?" a why question tends to illicit useless responses and explanations that are generally not helpful.

this approach will increase trust and openess in communication and help you understand the other person. this also allows the other person to explain their reality in doing so they begin to question their own assumptions and misinterpretations of the reality they have constructed.

as you are being given information you may be given information that you disagree with. if you react to this and respond from your disagreement and challenge the information given then you have lost the position of "what do they know that i don't?" and you have re-taken the position of "i know, they don't?" you have set yourself in opposition to them and your alternative perspectives on reality are in conflict again. you will then be playing the game "i am right, you are wrong". this is the game which no one wins and everyone loses.
 
i will leave this here for now.

[pljames]

So if the patient "opens up" there might be a clue as to where they are comming from? But I was stubborn and didn't want to be responsibile for my actions. One can by listening determine that the other person will tell the counselor there reason for what they believe? Because they really want help but won't take responsibility? pljames

[S. Earl Martin]

Very good response. This is the same technique that is used in mediation. It is called open ended questions. It allows all parties to see a bigger picture and with out you appearing to be judgeing them or disagreeing with them. It also allows you to find out more information as to the rationale of why they think or believe what they do. It can lead to a better understanding on both parts and elicites conversation in a nonconfrontational setting. The focus should be on communication at first. This first part is called information gathering. Then it moves to questions like "How do you see this action playing out?" "What do you expect to achieve?" " Will you be happy with this outcome?" "Can you see any alternetive actions that could achieve a better outcome?" It is important that you allow the other party to make the decision no matter how much you want to make it for them. Unless they "own" the decision. They are very likly not to allow it to happen. Good Luck Earl

[pljames]

My friend Martin,
Excellent post. In my quest to understand psychology I first must learned the basics of it. This forum has showed me that.It is not (in my opinion) the discipline that is complex it's the client/patient and the theapist that spoil the discipline? Thoughts please. pljames

[pljames]

The discipline phychology has been around for some time. If over time psychology has (evolved) to be better and understood and (if those who practice the discipline follow what they think is the right way to administer the discipline to a patience by experience or their own personal ideas then wouldn't that hurt the past as well as the present and future of the discipline)? pljames

[S. Earl Martin]

I can't speak for psychology, but in mediation which in some ways is very similar. If the mediator interjects their personal beliefs and doesn't allow the other parties to come to their own decision? It has a marked effect on the success rate. When dealing with personal issues it isn't like going to a mechcanic for your car. Or even a doctor if you are sick. The mind and personality are much more complex. Unless the people feel that the decision was theirs. If they feel they were forced or coerced it effects the outcome. They many times will not follow thru with the agreement.
The real issue deals with positions and interests. People enter the situation with a position. They believe this or that. The interest is what is the goal or what they hope to achieve? What is the best possible outcome?

[pljames]

SMW,
 I understand. To quote you...wow. I am overjoyed with your patients. I am groping in the dark and you are the light I seek to understand. I love knowledge but knowledge means different things to different people. Each has their own perspective and understanding. The answer you gave me was perfect (as far as I was concered). You would have made Aristotle proud. pljames



S

I was refusing to accept any truth as reality, so in turn created my own delusion as my truth so as not to hear see know the reality of the truth I refused to acknowledge. My question is how does (be it a thearpist or parent) persuade (for lack of other words) another person they are believing a lie and not accepting a truth they refuse to believe? The word truth has many varibles to believe or reject as truth. I see now how can I use that experience to help others? Thoughts please. pljames

by saying you want to persuade a person they are believing a lie you are saying that you know the truth about the reality they live in. if you want to help this "other person" you might be better to rid yourself of the idea that you believe the truth and they believe a lie. if you are holding that attitude you are creating a point of resistance between yourself and the other person. even if you know the person is wrong based on measurable objective evidence you would still be better to rid yourself of this attitude. this is the point were failure occurs and reoccurs. until you are free from the notion that you know and they dont,you will return to this point of resistance and failure.

so getting rid of the attitude of "i know, they dont know", you will achieve better results taking the attitude "what do they know that i dont?". this puts you in the position of curious observer, interested on looker. from this position you can ask questions such as how does that work? what does that mean? how do you know that is true? who says this is true? what would happen if you did/didnt do this...? asking questions that begin with who, what, when, and how will lead the other person to give information about there perspective. avoid asking "why?" a why question tends to illicit useless responses and explanations that are generally not helpful.

this approach will increase trust and openess in communication and help you understand the other person. this also allows the other person to explain their reality in doing so they begin to question their own assumptions and misinterpretations of the reality they have constructed.

as you are being given information you may be given information that you disagree with. if you react to this and respond from your disagreement and challenge the information given then you have lost the position of "what do they know that i don't?" and you have re-taken the position of "i know, they don't?" you have set yourself in opposition to them and your alternative perspectives on reality are in conflict again. you will then be playing the game "i am right, you are wrong". this is the game which no one wins and everyone loses.
 
i will leave this here for now.

[S. Earl Martin]

pljames Wink Wink